News, views & chat from the people of West London
Hillingdon, 
London Borough, News, Pictures, Chat
truth
MAIN INDEX | PHOTOS | HAYES | UXBRIDGE
+ + Check out the LATEST photos! + + JOIN THE DEBATES + + IT'S GOOD TO TALK! + +
WELCOME

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:17 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1806
Although this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rists.html in today's DM draws attention to the price of road fuels, it does not FULLY explain WHY the price of road fuels are so high.
Quote:
The price of diesel soared to a record 150p a litre yesterday sparking fears of chaos at the pumps as thousands of motorists could be forced off the roads.
With prices already at a record high of 143.61p, on average, the eye-watering price was spotted at a Shell garage at Corley Services on the M6 near Coventry.


This graph http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollhist-graph3.htm shows that the pound was worth about $2 mid 2008. TODAY the pound is worth about $1.55 (a devaluation of 23%).

This article http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008 ... ommodities shows that in July 2008 a barrel of crude oil was $147. Today a barrel of crude is priced at $125: see here http://www.oil-price.net/.

Today's crude price is $22 dollars LESS than the record $147 price in 2008. In 2008 a litre of diesel reached about £1.50, that was when a barrel of crude was $147. Today we have diesel back at £.150 per litre while a barrel of crude is $125, and rising.

When a barrel of crude gets back to $147, as it is very likely to very soon, we can expect a litre of diesel to reach anywhere between £1.85 and £1.90 per litre; maybe even £2.00 per litre. I would expect that price to mean a litre of petrol will be about £1.90 per litre. (£8.65 per gallon).

The effect of QE (printing money) is now clear for all to see.

And George Osborne has indicated that he will NOT reduce the tax-take on road fuel in the coming budget.

If there is no significant reduction in the total tax-take on road fuel in the coming budget, AND QE is not reversed very soon, then it will be a very clear message that this coalition government is deliberately destroying the UK economy, along with the assistance of the Bank of England. It will also greatly increase the risk of social unrest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1307
This is the graph you need and yes it shows the price of oil is linked to printing. It isn't any more expensive in dollars but as Sterling has devalued against the Dollar it costs UK consumers more.

Image

EROI is now a buzz word in the world of oil production. It stands for Energy Returned on Energy Invested and relates to the fact that many of the Worlds major wells are now using seawater injection to force the hard to get oil out. Shaybah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaybah was supposed to have a 50 year life (opened in 96-98). This year they are starting the construction of the Natural Gas Liquids pipeline which tends to suggest Shaybah is heading into decline somewhat early.
All this info is easily available on the web and tends to suggest something other than the world being awash with oil

In addition to this the traditional exporters are using more of the stuff themselves now as of course are the emerging economies in Asia, we have all seen the TV pictures of multi lane Highways in places like Dubai and Suadi and Beijing filled with motors. These never existed 2 decades ago and are now having a significant effect on supply or more importantly pushing up the cost per barrel.

Cheap, easy to get to stuff is at peak production. Not only that but we are not discovering any more (in anything like the quantities required to maintain current usage levels beyond a decade or so).
This is not to say oil is running out it is not. As I have said before usage of the refined product has increased exponentially across the world and demand can just about keep up with demand, this of course leads to price spikes.

From this we can deduce oil will continue to rise in price. It may drop in nominal terms in a deflationary environment, but not at the same speed, this would make it even less affordable. The fact that the Government is sanctioning QE means they are pulling out all the stops to avoid deflation.

Maybe the price will fall back again it has before, but the fundamentals this time are somewhat different. Only time will tell what the markets will do in the future.

The UK's problem is that the majority of a cost of a litre is duty and VAT. If this were removed completely we would enjoy some of the cheapest oil in the developed World, it is also fair to say all Countries to some extent or another levy tax on road fuels.
Osborne has said today that the motorist will have to bear the price rises and whatever tweaks he will apply in the forthcoming budget, no doubt this will lead to the unrest Westonman predicts but the Government is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The UK benefits regime is amongst one of the most generous in the world. The tax raised from road fuels goes a long way towards funding those benefits. What will tip the balance motorists protesting for lower tax or general unrest when benefits are cut? This basically is the choice which we will be faced with. The Country is living beyond its means and has been for a number of years now if we want to be the caring society we are and provide the level of benefit we do then sacrifices have to be made.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:25 pm
Posts: 288
And thats why all taxes , should be ring fenced
its the only fair way
EG green tax on aviation , given to the engine builders to research better engines
not into general taxation


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1806
geezer466 wrote:
The UK's problem is that the majority of a cost of a litre is duty and VAT.
The UK's problem is irresponsible and dishonest politicians. The UK doesn't have the highest fuel taxes in the world by accident. These taxes are decided by politicians with a dishonest 'belief ' in man-made global warming. These taxes are levied because politicians have deceived the UK electorate into an EU membership that surrenders our national sovereignty to foreign powers against our wishes; a foreign power that drains the UK taxpayer of huge sums of our national wealth. These taxes are levied because successive governments have encouraged state dependency against personal responsibility.

geezer466 wrote:
Osborne has said today that the motorist will have to bear the price rises and whatever tweaks he will apply in the forthcoming budget,
That is true, Osborne has. But what Osborne isn't saying: motoring taxes are killing the UK economy; they are acting like a huge sea anchor that will eventually drag us onto the rocks; probably sooner rather than later. For too many now, the economic pain has become intolerable, it has passed the point where it is profitable going to work.

geezer466 wrote:
The UK benefits regime is amongst one of the most generous in the world.
The UK's benefits system is the most irresponsible and insane in the world. It positively discourages personal responsibility, and undermines the need to work for a living.

There is only one realistic option open to any responsible government; that is an immediate and sizeable cut in government spending. Scrap the whole insane green agenda. Stop sending money to Brussels. The whole benefits system must be drastically overhauled and completely redesigned to what can realistically be afforded.

Because no political party has the will to do the 'right thing' and reduce public spending to an affordable level, high and unsustainable taxation will eventually drive the British people to breaking point. I fear that that point is approaching fast. We are on the very edge of the £7 gallon; the £9, or even £10 gallon could easily arrive during 2012. Such prices for road fuel are not only criminal, they are suicidal. It is very difficult NOT to conclude that government policy is to destroy the UK economy.

QE induced inflation of 25%; savings rates of 3%, and taxed at 20%; creative accounting RPI and CPI of 4% to 5%; wage freezes; a stagnant economy; unsustainable government spending; runaway utility price rises; all topped up with unbearable levels of taxation: can only mean one thing - the train is running out of track - fast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1307
The increased cost of road fuels will filter down to the consumer is higher prices in the shops also as they are passed on by business.

Just another example on how debasement of the currency impacts inflation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:10 pm
Posts: 1461
Thank you Tony, the best thing you ever did was run away. :cry: :roll:

_________________
Its not always the biggest and the bestest, its them that make the least mistakes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1806
geezer466 wrote:
The increased cost of road fuels will filter down to the consumer is higher prices in the shops also as they are passed on by business.
Geezer, you are so right there. It is amazing how many people fail to see that.

The same applies to MOST taxation where ever, and to whomever tax is levied. The cry is “tax the rich” without actually identifying the 'rich'. But whoever is perceived as being 'rich', and is able to pass their tax costs on down the system, will do so. Only the poor at the very bottom of the tax structure are unable to pass their tax costs on to other consumers.

A casual reading of readers' comments in the press shows that a lot of people don't mind fuel tax being high because, as they see it, “they don't drive”. The level of comprehension is appalling. They must think that all the provisions in the shops get there by magic carpet, or something similar. It really does pose some serious questions about some people's ability to think for themselves - a result of the dumbed down education system I suppose.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:25 pm
Posts: 288
Same with tobacco , booze
Tax goes up , less people use it
Less tax comming in
More general tax to make up for it
Same with electric cars etc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 118
In 2010, the company I work for were worried that some staff would change jobs leaving a hole in the expertise needed to continue to offer a great service and knowledge base to our clients in facilitating their buildings. This was not just at one building by 9 all over the country with many of those staff travelling 30 or 40 miles each way to get to work. To counter this, the company and not the client decided to pay those travelling over 30 miles an additional £70 per month to assist with their fuel costs. Since then no one at our company has received a wage rise and the cost of fuel has continued to rise and they are now discussing again what more can be done to keep these people - out of 120 people in Facilities at clients buildings, only 2 left previously and wished they'd done so sooner as the job and travel they moved to has worked out for the better and the biggest benefit is the work / home life balance is better in favour of the family. I will be considering my own role at the company in the coming months as I simply cannot sustain paying £80/week just to get to and from work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:10 pm
Posts: 1461
Living as I do on the old age pension its a double wammy, no thought given about them, Public transport although free is also under threat, so best advice dont grow old, they are out to get you. :o :o

_________________
Its not always the biggest and the bestest, its them that make the least mistakes.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron




LOCAL RESIDENTS AND BUSINESS: YOU CAN ADVERTISE TOTALLY FREE OF CHARGE IN OUR ADS SECTIONS!!

ARTICLES WANTED, ARTICLES FOR SALE, PLUMBERS, PIZZAS, ELECTRICIANS, ESTATE AGENTS, ACCOMMODATION WANTED OR FOR RENT, FLATS, ROOMS, HOLIDAYS & TRAVEL, JOBS AGENCIES, TRADESMEN & WOMEN, MOTORS, DRIVING LESSONS, HGV TRAINING, VOLUNTARY GROUPS... JUST REGISTER AND POST YOUR FREE AD, IT'S THAT SIMPLE. NO CATCH! TELL YOUR FRIENDS.

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

London Borough of Hillingdon Chat - Main Index

Christmas music Merelbeke