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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Posts: 1262
Does this leave anybody with a nice feeling; GCHQ "training" children before they even know themselves properly?

http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/gc ... story.html
Quote:
Wondering what to do with the kids this summer?
GCHQ wants to take them away and give them the skills to help the country fight off cyber-attacks.
The Sigint and security organisation, based in Cheltenham has overall responsibility for keeping Britain's electronic secrets safe, and preventing attacks on the systems that run the country's critical national infrastructure - power supplies, waters supplies, roads, air traffic country and the like.
Its newly set up specialist cyber security arm the National Cyber Security Centre will be running residential courses for 2,500 teenagers this summer as well as one-day courses for 11-years olds called 'CyberFirst Adventurers'.

We should be aware that Common Purpose has a lot of influence over GCHQ. Hence the mention of "graduates" in the article:
Quote:
Ciaran Martin, the head of (National Cyber Security Centre) NCSC, said: "A thousand cyber first graduates is a thousand steps on the way to building the world class cyber security workforce at a national level. These are skills we desperately need."
GCHQ has recently been given legal power to monitor all our eletronic communications. So who are these 'trained teenagers' going to be watching?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:45 pm 
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I really do think this a great idea

Cyber crime - both criminal and inter government - is huge and a bigger threat to businesses, and the UK than most people realise. Encouraging kids to get involved in this growing area as opposed to aiming for commercial IT areas is a sensible idea

Establishing The National Cyber Security Centre is a sensible idea as, despite it be run by GCHQ, it pools various disparate cyber resources from various agencies together to form one defined centre of excellence to not only deal with critical cyber emergencies, but also to offer UK businesses advice. A London office opens next week primarily to educate businesses

Think about critical infrastructure like power, water, communications, banking and food distribution. All of these areas rely heavily on IT and all are vulnerable. A cyber attack on the big 6 supermarket distribution systems could cause rioting as people search for food, so planning and education these industries is a priority

The idea that GCHQ and NCSC staff (and their teenage students) will be sitting about looking at what you and I are doing is plainly daft. The numbers of staff and aims of the NCSC is nowhere near enough to make this paranoid fantasy a reality


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Our schools have to seek out talented students to get them enrolled in programmes like this and others in engineering and the sciences. Too many schools are just going through the motions and focussing on pass-marks, box ticking and what Ofsted thinks of them.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:07 pm 
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SOT wrote:
The idea that GCHQ and NCSC staff (and their teenage students) will be sitting about looking at what you and I are doing is plainly daft. The numbers of staff and aims of the NCSC is nowhere near enough to make this paranoid fantasy a reality
So, I'm a paranoid fantasist?

I find it very hard to believe that anybody can be so trusting of Government, and officialdom generally, after what we have been, and continue to be subjected to.

Why should Government and the political class be considered so trustworthy? Because their record denies any trustworthiness.

The political class has taken us into a political union and handed over our sovereignty to a foreign and illegal power under the guise of a free-trade Common Market WITHOUT first gaining the approval of the British people. For decades the same political class has blatantly denied that ever-closer political union was the whole aim and purpose of the union. BUT now, we should all know that the Common Market was ALWAYS about very close political union, and the death of independent nationhood.

Even when the British people began to realise what EU membership really meant for the British people, and the people called for a referendum, the political class did everything to prevent the British people from having their say. Now that the British people have made it clear that they want out of the EU monster, the same political class are presiding over another huge scam of pretence at leaving the EU.

Let's not forget that the same political class have positively proven their untrustworthiness by plundering public money through false and unjustified EXPENSES claims.

Illegal and unjustified wars against sovereign nations that posed no threat to the UK, also demonstrates the untrustworthiness of the political class. Blair, Brown, Cameron and Clegg should all face criminal charges for unjustified aggression against sovereign states, and of mass murder of innocent victims.

The recent detaining of British troops who were sent to Northern Ireland, and now threatened with prosecutions for crimes of murder, and crimes against humanity (AFTER IRA members have been excused for their real and many crimes of large scale murder), provides a powerful example of the untrustworthiness of the political class. As does the shameful treatment of ex-service personnel by the British Government and its agents.

Failure to deal with obvious voter fraud is another example of untrustworthiness of the political class and the system.

The disgusting refusal by the Establishment to fully investigate and bring charges of child sex abuse against any living Establishment figure is yet another indicator of untrustworthiness. It is amazing how many reports and files on child sex abuse get quietly “lost”.

Melanie Shaw, a child sex abuse victim in a Nottinghamshire Care Home, who became an adult whistle-blower, has been relentlessly persecuted by the British state. She is currently locked up in HM Prison. Her trial was in private, no jury, no public presence, no right of reply for Melanie Shaw. Her home and possessions have been confiscated. Before her last 'trial', she spent about 7 months in HMP in solitary confinement, without medical care and treatment. At the last in-secret trial she was given a 2 year custodian sentence, and no remission for the 7 months she was in pre-trial solitary confinement. More details here: https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/melani ... rt-hearing

There is a lot of history concerning Melanie Shaw here: https://www.ukcolumn.org/search/node/Melanie%20Shaw

The mainstream media (MSM) absolutely refuses to investigate and report on Melanie Shaw's case. Why?

The experience of Melanie Shaw is NOT an isolated case. Why should I, or anybody for that matter, trust the political class and the Establishment to NOT use children and GCHQ to spy on us?

There are many other reasons why the Established political class should not be trusted. Not least the deliberate political destruction of the British Military's ability to properly defend Britain and her people.

Also, the failure of the MSM to properly investigate and report so much 'questionable' behaviour by the Established political class doesn't put the MSM in very good light either.

Last but not least, the political class's addiction the the blatant and endless lies of man-made global warming/climate change, and the outrageous levels of taxation that are politically justified by this pack of lies, proves beyond doubt that the Established political class and their cronies are untrustworthy. That trail of the East Anglia University emails PROVED the political lies concerning the whole of the man-made global warming/climate change insanity, And NOTHING has been done about it. Why? Because the Established political class are untrustworthy.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:54 pm 
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I am not denying there's a lot broken when it comes to how we are governed and I could also list a large number of fiscal projects, policies and decisions that are a waste of public cash at best, and are bent at worse. I work in a central Govt role and have seen up close some amazing cock ups and spending of taxpayers money that is questionable. But I also work with a lot of motivated people who deliver a good service at the taxpayer in spite of idiotic civil service managers who are clueless of the real world.

But linking various injustices like the MPs expenses scandal (and it was a scandal) with the idea that this means the Govt cant be trusted and will be teaching kids to use IT to spy on the likes of you and me does not hold water.

Around 20,000 people work in the intelligence agencies (including non spies such as cleaners.chippies, recruitment, trainers, caterers, engineers, IT technicians and painters) to listen to the electronic footprint of more than 40 million IT and smartphone users across the UK. It doesn't add up.

Across the world today, 23 billion text messages will be sent, 42 billion Whatsapp messages with 250 million videos attached. There are 1.86 billion active monthly Facebook users ...... and dozens of other social Network platforms including Twitter. And of course, some old fashioned fools like me still make speech calls!!

Try finding half a needle in the Sahara Desert blindfolded and with one arm tied behind your back and you will have more luck than listening to any more than a tiny fraction of these contacts. So they target their scare resources. Yes intelligence agencies use software to sift through many millions of messages. But only key words will or can be searched for. Do you really think the term "TV Licence" or "School Waiting List" is on MI5's search criteria???

I do agree that far too many agencies and organisations can have access to technology that should be reserved for crime fighting and defeating terrorists, but I would suggest that MI5, Mi6 and GCHQ have far too much on with the big stuff than to focus what Westonman bought from Tescos today, what time he got home and the brand of loo roll he uses!

Lets keep it real eh?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:09 pm 
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How pleasing, to see somebody talking sense. For a change.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:31 pm 
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S.O.T, I'm sorry if the truth is offensive to you, but the truth remains that Government, over decades and by all shades, has clearly demonstrated it is NOT to be trusted. The “expenses scandal” was the revealing of THEFT by people who demonstrated that they cannot be trusted in anything. People who are in positions of great trust; people who call themselves “Right Honourable”. A Thief steals because he/she is a thief; a liar lies because he/she is a liar. Liars and thieves should not be trusted in Government, at any level. The liars and thieves who “fiddled” their expenses are the same people who make huge decisions that affect all our lives and freedoms; the same people who decide and vote on how much money to steal from us in taxes, in order to fund the very issues the majority of us disapprove of.

At all levels of officialdom there is plenty of evidence to prove the untrustworthiness of the whole system. In my previous post I mentioned SECRET COURTS. Courts behind closed doors, and no jury, and no public presence, in contravention of Common Law. Below is a very important report that shows what untrustworthy officialdom considers to be “British Values”, those “British Values” that the political class and its officialdom is constantly attempting to brainwash us all with. Unfotunately morality and human compassion are not amongst those “British Values”. Before you try and tell me that the report below is an isolated incident, or even Fake News; I experienced very similar heavy handedness from officialdom over the care and provision of my own elderly mother some 10 years ago. Unfortunately for the “authorities” of the NHS and a local authority, my mother died in hospital before the authorities could get their case to court.

The report below highlights the power and injustices practised by local authorities and SECRET COURTS without juries. And we are required/expected to trust the SYSTEM?

This report should be read carefully and slowly; let the power of this report sink right down into your understanding:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lking.html

Quote:
But behind it lies an astonishing story that has come to represent all that is wrong with Britain’s shadowy Court of Protection (CoP). A court so powerful that, until yesterday, Teresa was forbidden from placing an obituary notice to inform friends of her brother Manuel’s death.

When this photograph was taken late last year, Teresa, who is 71, had just been released from jail — her punishment for defying British social workers who had decreed that her brother, who had dementia, must spend his twilight years in a Devon care home rather than the Portugese idyll that she wanted for him in the country of his birth.
She was sentenced to six months for refusing to sign legal papers giving social services control over the life of Manuel. Only a campaign by the Daily Mail and Teresa’s lawyers secured her an early release, with High Court judges ruling that she should never have gone to jail.


On another point of untrustworthiness. Local authorities across Britain claim they have NO MONEY to provide the appropriate care of the needy in their charge. May I politely suggest that you perform an investigation into the responsibilities of the “Section 151 Officer”, a very secretive officer, at all local authorities, and the value of UNUSABLE RESERVES that the vast majority of, if not all, local authorities identify in the annual “Statement of Accounts”. In some cases, these UNUSABLE RESERVES are so large that the income from them is sufficient to fund the whole of the local authorities responsibilities and annual expenditure, without collecting any Council Tax. This year we can all expect Council Tax increases of up to 8% in in some cases, maybe more by the time all the precepts that are not limited to a 2% increase are included. At the same time, officialdom tells us that the official rate of price inflations is 1.8%. The untrustworthiness is blatant, and staring us in the face.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:16 am 
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All very fascinating Westonman - but what on earth has this got to do with GCHQ recruiting kids to spy on us?

As for the secret courts. In many cases, it is not possible to have juries or the media in court to hear disclosable evidence from the authorities. In terrorism cases for example, secret methods used by covert teams may be highlighted which is OK for a closed court where those present have signed the OSA, but not acceptable for broadcast across Twitter in 5 minutes time by some idiot.

I know your MO by now and you will show me an example of of a secret court being used in an unfair way. But its a secret court - you will have no was of knowing the truth as ....er.... it will not be reported

Even in your paranoid world of mistrust, you must see/agree that some matter must remain secret to protect us - and showing the world how we collect evidence on terrorists and others is plainly stupid


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Quote:
...but what on earth has this got to do with GCHQ recruiting kids to spy on us?
It all adds up to very good reasons for not trusting the political class, who are spying on us; and especially not trusting the 'authorities' to protect children from being abused in order to spy on their own families and contacts. Children who have no experience of life, no firm sense of the dangers of secret and absolute power wielded by secret parties.

Quote:
As for the secret courts. In many cases, it is not possible to have juries or the media in court to hear disclosable evidence from the authorities. In terrorism cases for example, secret methods used by covert teams may be highlighted which is OK for a closed court where those present have signed the OSA, but not acceptable for broadcast across Twitter in 5 minutes time by some idiot.
Balderdash! Secret courts are about protecting the guilty and convicting the innocent. You have allowed yourself to swallow too much establishment propaganda. Trial by jury protects the whole of the Justice System from corruption. Secret trials protect the corrupt justice system and enables tyranny to prosper. Secret courts without a jury are also against our Constitution.

Quote:
I know your MO by now and you will show me an example of of a secret court being used in an unfair way. But its a secret court - you will have no was of knowing the truth as ....er.... it will not be reported
Why on earth should a child sex abused whistle-blower be dragged before a closed court with no jury? Answer: To protect the establishment; there can be NO other reason. As an example, I say again, research the case of one Melanie Shaw, who is currently banged up in HMP without a proper trail before a jury. Ask yourself; why none of the MSM will even discuss this case when it is reported to them; and they definitely will not report on it. An MSM blackout exists over the whole series of cases affecting Melanie Shaw. This isn't to protect Melanie Shaw; it must be to protect the very suspect establishment.

Quote:
Even in your paranoid world of mistrust, you must see/agree that some matter must remain secret to protect us - and showing the world how we collect evidence on terrorists and others is plainly stupid
Secrecy can be employed to protect the tyrannical political class. As for terrorism, even here the MSM and establishment aren't as clean as you would like to think. You only have to watch the BBC TV reports of the collapse of World Trade Centre Building 7 to see that truth can be missing. The BBC reported, in front of a TV camera, that Building 7 had collapsed, TWENTY MINUTES BEFORE Building 7 had actually collapsed. Building 7 was still standing in camera shot as the BBC reported it had collapsed. You've already indicated that you don't like my MO, but here is a report that should prove interesting, EVEN to you. SEE: http://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-forekn ... up/5438161

For the whole of my working life I was subject to the Official Secrets Act. Eventually the British Government sold my employment, which was fully covered by the O.S Act, to a foreign corporation, a political act that had anything similar act been carried out by any ordinary individual, they would have been banged up in prison for a very long time. The secrets that I was privy to were all put under the control of a foreign power (the French) without any reference to the sovereign British people.

There have been a number of reports recently in the MSM about the seriously degraded state of the British Military, and the handover of control to the EU. Try asking any MP for their opinion on this state of affairs and you will effectively be ignored, blanked, told - “it has nothing to do with me”. Try asking your MP, any MP. Provide links to news items that report on such matters; THEN come back and tell me what replies you received – if any. Perhaps then you may begin to suspect that my “paranoia” is not paranoia after all, but realism based upon real experience.

I also have personal experience of the Official Secrets Act being used to silence news, and prevent justice to injured parties. Please forgive me for not being too explicit, but I remain subject to the O.S Act.
Back in the 1980s there had been a serious incident on MoD property that posed a direct and very probable threat to human life. Because of my skills, I was required to urgently attend the scene, a request/demand that necessitated an urgent journey by road of over 100 miles, and carrying essential equipment. Soon after my arrival on scene it became obvious that a death sentence was extremely likely. I expressed my understanding of the situation to an MoD health official, who immediately took me to one side, out of earshot of anybody else, and said in whispered tones, “You are correct, but you're also subject to the Official Secrets Act; if any of this leaks out then you will be held responsible – and you know what that will mean.”. That was a direct threat to use the O.S Act in order to cover up a reportable incident. As I say, secrecy can be, and is used, to protect the guilty, and prevent justice for the innocent. That incident never was reported by the MSM.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:33 pm 
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I am not going to address all the issues you raise , but I accept you & I are entitled to our own opinions my friend.

But I will comment on one area - so called secret courts:

Westonman, you will be more than aware than most from your past, that many have died or lost loved ones in the fight to protect free speech, whilst thousands continue to do so. Some do so in a variety of uniforms, whilst others do so in civvies. What ever their apparel, I think we can agree that these brave men and women deserve our respect

The secret courts I refer to are those which apply when disclosable evidence is so classified, you simply could not allow the general public to hear it. In these cases, legal advocates with the necessary security clearance act for the accused. They are allowed to see all redacted evidence. They have training to understand the issue of handling classified material and will discuss at meetings with prosecution counsel what they can and cannot tell their client in order to protect national security.

Westonman, I have absolutely no doubt that abuses of the OSA (like you recall) have always occurred and still do, but I would argue that the main abusers are incompetent military officers or civil servants who are anxious about their career that they are national security.

But despite the human rights risks, I strongly believe that in certain legal cases 'secret courts' are absolutely necessary. Lets be clear, the term is misleading as there's nothing secret about the courts other than some redacted information and the use of anonymous witnesses where absolutely necessary. I agree that juries - despite many inadequacies with the system - is the best way to achieve justice. But where people's lives may be placed at risk, extraordinary measures are inevitable.

Tens of thousands of people sign the OSA, but few get access to the top end/ juicy stuff. A good friend of mine was in such a position and following a security breach he had to undertake a partial identity change for his own protection. I do not know any more than that, and cannot discuss exactly what he had to do. But it has wrecked his life and frankly, he has paid a huge emotional toll. So you will understand why I feel that protecting the protectors justifies the alternative route to justice that 'secret courts' provide


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