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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:56 am 
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With all due respect to everyone's political views none of the mainstream parties have the answer. In that respect neither do UKIP as many of their policies are unpalatable to either the left or right of politics (I recommend people try and get a chance top read their manifesto's via their web site.) .

As a one issue party trying to force a referendum from ruling parties they excel but once they reach that objective they should either reform and think through coherent policy or disband.

Never forget Nigel Farage as good an orator you might think he is, was also an investment banker so is fundamentally part of the problem as to why we are now where we are. He was of the type which stoked the debt bubble and made a mint out of it....

It's quite easy to work out why we are where we are, Unsustainable debt bubble led to huge levels of debt in both public and private finances, along with globalisation which has reduced the value of earned employment at home and allowed more tangent and higher earning roles to be shipped overseas. Not enough jobs, too many people on benefits draining public funds (a hell of a lot of which has to be borrowed now) and insufficient liquidity in the system to allow any meaningful level of borrowing to kick start growth and entrepreneurship.

The following looks to be heavy reading (Westonman will enjoy it) but it lays down all the problems as I have outlined them above in much greater detail. It is by Tullet Prebon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullett_Prebon
Quote:
Tullett Prebon plc (LSE: TLPR) is one of the largest inter-dealer money brokers in the world.[citation needed] It is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 250 Index.


I have followed most of their published works since before the crisis kicked off in 2008 and have found them to be very much ahead of the curve...

http://www.tullettprebon.com/Documents/strategyinsights/TPSI_009_Perfect_Storm_009.pdf

Energy, Finance and the end of Growth is the title of the report.. This is the first outright trashing of Globalisiation that I have seen from a relatively mainstream source- meanwhile over at 'the Economist' they are still bleating on about it's supposed virtues


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1806
geezer466 wrote:
The following looks to be heavy reading (Westonman will enjoy it) but it lays down all the problems as I have outlined them above in much greater detail. It is by Tullet Prebon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullett_Prebon
Quote:
Tullett Prebon plc (LSE: TLPR) is one of the largest inter-dealer money brokers in the world.[citation needed] It is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 250 Index.


I have followed most of their published works since before the crisis kicked off in 2008 and have found them to be very much ahead of the curve...

http://www.tullettprebon.com/Documents/strategyinsights/TPSI_009_Perfect_Storm_009.pdf

Energy, Finance and the end of Growth is the title of the report.. This is the first outright trashing of Globalisiation that I have seen from a relatively mainstream source- meanwhile over at 'the Economist' they are still bleating on about it's supposed virtues
Geezer, I haven't yet read the whole report, but this quote from page 5 certainly sums the up situation me:
Quote:
We date the acceleration in short-termism to the early 1980s. Since then, there has been a relentless shift to immediate consumption as part of something that has been called a “cult of self-worship”. The pursuit of instant gratification has resulted in the accumulation of debt on an unprecedented scale. The financial crisis, which began in 2008 and has since segued into the deepest and most protracted economic slump for at least eighty years, did not result entirely from a short period
of malfeasance by a tiny minority, comforting though this illusion may be. Rather, what began in 2008 was
the denouement of a broadly-based process which had lasted for thirty years, and is described here as “the
great credit super-cycle”.
The cult of instant self-gratification is the primary reason behind the current state of affairs. Not only has the economy crashed due to this cult, so have morality and justice been sacrificed on the alter of self-worship.

There are forces behind the scenes that have deliberately encouraged this cult of selfishness, even so, we are all guilty of succumbing to it to some degree.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1307
Westonman wrote:
geezer466 wrote:
The following looks to be heavy reading (Westonman will enjoy it) but it lays down all the problems as I have outlined them above in much greater detail. It is by Tullet Prebon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullett_Prebon
Quote:
Tullett Prebon plc (LSE: TLPR) is one of the largest inter-dealer money brokers in the world.[citation needed] It is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 250 Index.


I have followed most of their published works since before the crisis kicked off in 2008 and have found them to be very much ahead of the curve...

http://www.tullettprebon.com/Documents/strategyinsights/TPSI_009_Perfect_Storm_009.pdf

Energy, Finance and the end of Growth is the title of the report.. This is the first outright trashing of Globalisiation that I have seen from a relatively mainstream source- meanwhile over at 'the Economist' they are still bleating on about it's supposed virtues
Geezer, I haven't yet read the whole report, but this quote from page 5 certainly sums the up situation me:
Quote:
We date the acceleration in short-termism to the early 1980s. Since then, there has been a relentless shift to immediate consumption as part of something that has been called a “cult of self-worship”. The pursuit of instant gratification has resulted in the accumulation of debt on an unprecedented scale. The financial crisis, which began in 2008 and has since segued into the deepest and most protracted economic slump for at least eighty years, did not result entirely from a short period
of malfeasance by a tiny minority, comforting though this illusion may be. Rather, what began in 2008 was
the denouement of a broadly-based process which had lasted for thirty years, and is described here as “the
great credit super-cycle”.
The cult of instant self-gratification is the primary reason behind the current state of affairs. Not only has the economy crashed due to this cult, so have morality and justice been sacrificed on the alter of self-worship.

There are forces behind the scenes that have deliberately encouraged this cult of selfishness, even so, we are all guilty of succumbing to it to some degree.


But many of us did not mortgage the family silver as to be able to afford it....

My grandparents and parents taught me a very simple lesson in life 'if you can't afford it then you can't buy it'. For many many years it served everyone well, until of course banks started falling over themselves to extend credit.

Then the value of property quadrupled and many borrowed and spent off the back off that..

End result, as a society we were living beyond our means and we now face decades of misery...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1806
geezer466 wrote:
But many of us did not mortgage the family silver as to be able to afford it....

My grandparents and parents taught me a very simple lesson in life 'if you can't afford it then you can't buy it'. For many many years it served everyone well, until of course banks started falling over themselves to extend credit.

Then the value of property quadrupled and many borrowed and spent off the back off that..

End result, as a society we were living beyond our means and we now face decades of misery...
I agree with all that. I have also practiced the same responsible approach to my personal finances, and still do; and for all that I am now being punished in my retirement by Government and local government for having been responsible and frugal through my working years. And there is a lot of people out there who believe that I, and others like me, should be disadvantaged by the State because I have been frugal and accumulated reserves.

Even so, I think there is a sense in which we are all guilty to a greater or lesser degree in accepting the instant-must-have self-centred society. For those with eyes to see, it has been very clear for decades that the current economic situation was inevitable at some time – and we've all voted for the politicians who have allowed this situation to develop. And many of us will still go out and cast a vote for the same politicians who have a history of doing the wrong thing – so in voting for these people we all must share some of the guilt.

I agree the banks are guilty of having offered unsustainable loans. But because a banker lights a fire, it doesn't mean we have to jump into it. There is such a thing as personal responsibility, and a very large number of ordinary folk have been irresponsible. When banks started offering endowment mortgages and interest-free mortgages it was clear to any thinking person that a disaster was inevitable. I rejected the offer of an endowment mortgage for that very reason, and that was in the days when a repayment mortgage came with a 15.5% interest rate.

A major aspect of the instant-gratification self-centred society is the discarding of normal morality; but anybody who dares to speak out against this moral decay is immediately attacked as being out-of-date, irrelevant, or some other form of disrespect. Even those who have been financially responsible, many expect to enjoy the 'fruits' of a decadent instant-gratification self-centred society; again, we continue to vote for politicians who have a history of promoting moral decline.


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