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Crimea
https://westlondonchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1502
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Author:  Jon [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Crimea

Am I missing something? If the people of Crimea want to go back to being part of Russia, what's the problem? I remember at the time of the Falklands it was all about "self determination". What's the difference?

Author:  Robongar [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Maybe being voting "Yes" to be apart of Russia, is better than the consequences of voting "No"!!
Apart from that. Do we know how many of the "No's" where counted?

There's a lot more to come from this, so beware. It might even be worth looking out for some alternative emergency cooking and heating, equipment for next winter. I think there is a chance, you might be glad of it ;)

Author:  vlad the impailer [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

My o/h comes from near there and knows a bit more about it than a lot of journos.
the ballot paper had 2 options,be part of russia or be a seperate country (crimea),not part of ukraine.
as most of the population were Russians it,s no supprise they voted the way they did,Ukraine is broke and russia pretty well off,what way would you vote ?.
the west,s reaction reminds me of when Belgium ? voted in a right wing party and the rest of europe refused to recognise it as it didnt fit in with their idea of "democracy".

Author:  Jon [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Indeed (although it wasn't Belgium).

Author:  Westonman [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Given the choice between being part of Russia or the EU, these days I would vote for being part of Russia.

The whole of the Western world's politicos now despise democracy. They all like to band the word 'democracy' about as if it gives them some kind of legality. But the truth is, they are running scared of true democracy (hence no EU referendum) because they know none of them would be where they are in a truly democratic system.
Comparing the likes of Cameron, Miliband, Clegg, Obama, K. Ashton, Barroso, Van Rompuy, Hollande, etc, etc. with Putin, and given the democratic choice, I would vote for Putin over any of the treacherous scoundrels ruling us.

A major advantage that Russia has over the West; Russia is not in debt to the international banksters. Russia has also developed the 'deep oil' strategy that the West refuses to adopt. We should carefully read those signs.

The Russians have a long-standing treaty that permits them to be in the Crimea. The treaty permits the Russians to have up to 26,000 troops there to support their military base. The Russians have every right to be in the Crimea. Historically, the Crimea is more Russian than anything else.

I believe we are seeing the West deliberately looking for trouble. Even a major war is acceptable to the democracy-hating idiots ruling over the UK, the EU, and The U.S.A. If we knew the full truth, it is very likely that the international banksters have decided that a major war is now necessary in order to boost the profits of the banks.

The West's politicos have been deliberately manufacturing wars since the Iraq war that was supported by the false claim of WMD capable of being launched against the West within 45 minutes. The next disaster was the West getting involved in Afghanistan; where the opium trade is now booming far more than before the West went in.
Later the West's politicos supported the disastrous 'democratic' elections of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. After Egypt the West engineered a war in Libya. Syria was the next on the West's agenda for military involvement; but fortunately the the public made it very clear to the warmongering politicos that another war was unacceptable. Now the West's politicos are looking to the Ukraine for the 'cause' of another war.

The likes of Blair, Brown, Miliband, Cameron, Clegg, Haige, and others, should be put on trial for high treason and warmongering.

All the talk and 'celebration' over the start of WWI in 1914, one hundred years ago, appears to have got the West's cowardly politicos and the international banksters in a war frenzy again.

Author:  geezer466 [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Westonman wrote:
Given the choice between being part of Russia or the EU, these days I would vote for being part of Russia.

The whole of the Western world's politicos now despise democracy. They all like to band the word 'democracy' about as if it gives them some kind of legality. But the truth is, they are running scared of true democracy (hence no EU referendum) because they know none of them would be where they are in a truly democratic system.
Comparing the likes of Cameron, Miliband, Clegg, Obama, K. Ashton, Barroso, Van Rompuy, Hollande, etc, etc. with Putin, and given the democratic choice, I would vote for Putin over any of the treacherous scoundrels ruling us.

A major advantage that Russia has over the West; Russia is not in debt to the international banksters. Russia has also developed the 'deep oil' strategy that the West refuses to adopt. We should carefully read those signs.

The Russians have a long-standing treaty that permits them to be in the Crimea. The treaty permits the Russians to have up to 26,000 troops there to support their military base. The Russians have every right to be in the Crimea. Historically, the Crimea is more Russian than anything else.

I believe we are seeing the West deliberately looking for trouble. Even a major war is acceptable to the democracy-hating idiots ruling over the UK, the EU, and The U.S.A. If we knew the full truth, it is very likely that the international banksters have decided that a major war is now necessary in order to boost the profits of the banks.

The West's politicos have been deliberately manufacturing wars since the Iraq war that was supported by the false claim of WMD capable of being launched against the West within 45 minutes. The next disaster was the West getting involved in Afghanistan; where the opium trade is now booming far more than before the West went in.
Later the West's politicos supported the disastrous 'democratic' elections of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. After Egypt the West engineered a war in Libya. Syria was the next on the West's agenda for military involvement; but fortunately the the public made it very clear to the warmongering politicos that another war was unacceptable. Now the West's politicos are looking to the Ukraine for the 'cause' of another war.

The likes of Blair, Brown, Miliband, Cameron, Clegg, Haige, and others, should be put on trial for high treason and warmongering.

All the talk and 'celebration' over the start of WWI in 1914, one hundred years ago, appears to have got the West's cowardly politicos and the international banksters in a war frenzy again.


Democracy is only good when it is the type that can be controlled.

The link and familiarity to the Falklands situation is well made. If the people of the Crimea want to be part of Russia then why should a bunch of self serving two faced western politicians stop them?

They should think and step very carefully. As has been proved in the past Putin is no fool and plays the long game.

On the other hand economies across the West are stagnating. It is difficult to see what will drive the next load of growth.

There is nothing like a big war to work wonders on economies and enrich those who pull the strings.

Author:  vlad the impailer [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Jon said....Indeed (although it wasn't Belgium).


where was it ?,twas some time ago and probably deleted from the history books of our eutopian dreamland :roll:

Author:  Rich Kid [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

From little annexations big problems can grow! As I recall from recent history Hitler annexed Austria in 1938, then the Sudetenland in the same year and in 1939 it was Czechoslavakia's turn - so "annexation" without a muscaular response seems to embolden dictators. As the saying goes, "if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it! ....

Author:  Westonman [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

Rich Kid wrote:
From little annexations big problems can grow! As I recall from recent history Hitler annexed Austria in 1938, then the Sudetenland in the same year and in 1939 it was Czechoslavakia's turn - so "annexation" without a muscaular response seems to embolden dictators. As the saying goes, "if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it! ....
The EU and the U.S.A are also in the annexation business; which is why Russia is getting defensive. The U.S.A got very twitchy when the Russians placed missiles in Cuba, now the Americans are deploying high-tech weapons on Russia's borders. I think the Russians have every reason to get twitchy, especially considering that the West's current crop of 'leaders' show every sign of being irrational psychopaths. Consider the threats from the West last Friday to Russia, saying if the referendum was held in the Crimea over the weekend there would be serious repercussions on the Monday. Well, Monday came and went, now the West has placed Visa restrictions on twenty or so Russian officials. Putin's response is to effectively say “I don't care!” and he has immediately drawn up plans to take the Crimea under Russian protection. Now what are West going to do? Probably not a lot. Putin knows the West's leaders better than they know themselves.

Currently the EU benefits from trade towards Russia to the tune of about 213 billion Euro per annum, while the Russians sell the EU about 120 billion Euros worth of trade per annum. The balance is all in the Russians favour. What's more, the bulk of the Russian trade going into the EU is oil and gas, and the Russians will have no difficulty in finding another market for those sales. The leaders of the West and the EU are a bunch of strutting loud-mouther bullies, and Putin knows it.

Author:  Kremmen [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crimea

If Crimea want to be part of Russia then let them. Who are we to speak with the likes of the Falklands who also voted to be part of the UK.

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