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 Post subject: RT spilling the beans?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:30 am 
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French president says on national TV that the Illuminati is attacking Paris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z9y-FtskzY


Cameron / Obama Love-in vs the truth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLT7lJ ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:11 am 
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Nope. Dont get what you are inferring. Are you linking these videos?? What are you saying??


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:58 am 
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I think he's saying the Obama Cameron love in might be seen as an immediate move by two men on the same side to immediately capitalise on the latest attacks by further extending mass surveillance of hundreds of millions of law abiding people.

It's odd how they want all this power to spy on everyone, yet we're told the French secret service had failed to keepbtabson the Hebdo attackers because iit's too difficult to keep watching too many people. That doesn't compute. Spying on dozens of known extremists is apparently too hard... so they want more power to spy on millions of people just in case?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Jon wrote:
I think he's saying the Obama Cameron love in might be seen as an immediate move by two men on the same side to immediately capitalise on the latest attacks by further extending mass surveillance of hundreds of millions of law abiding people.
That's precisely what I am saying! All the commonality between Obama and Cameron are all common evils. Just as the commonality between Bush and Blair/Brown were all common evils. As Brian Gerrish points out in the RT broadcast, the special relationship only exists between the political class of the USA and UK; it does not exist between the ordinary people.

Brian Gerrish also mentioned that major commonality between the USA and the UK of their busted economies – both the USA and the UK have unsustainable debt that are the direct results of crooked politics, crooked banking and corporatists. And both the USA and UK have suffered the same destruction of their industrial bases at the hands of crooked politicians, crooked bankers, and crooked corporations – the USA and the UK are politically locked into a crooked globalist agenda – the same agenda that French President Hollande is implying when he says that the Illuminati are behind the attacks on France.

And don't lose site of the fact that ISIS have directly resulted from the actions of a belligerent West's actions in and around the Middle East – particularly the combined special relationship actions of the USA and UK.

Jon wrote:
It's odd how they want all this power to spy on everyone, yet we're told the French secret service had failed to keepbtabson the Hebdo attackers because iit's too difficult to keep watching too many people. That doesn't compute. Spying on dozens of known extremists is apparently too hard... so they want more power to spy on millions of people just in case?
Again Jon; that is exactly what I see going on. There is nothing in any of this crooked politicking that will be to the benefit of the ordinary people of the USA, UK, France, or any other independent nation.

At some stage a centralised globalist power is going to arise, which means that the power of the USA must somehow be removed from the world stage. Likewise for the UK; which has already been reduced to a an empty shadow of military power, and now has no economic power either - although the UK still has politicians strutting the world stage behaving like they still possess real power. These elitist globalist politicians and their banking and corporatist colleagues are all working to enslave the whole world. What's so surprising; is that so many people either can't see it, or won't see it. You only have to look closely at the UN, and the way its tentacles have filtered right down the the local parish council or local community project to see anti-humanitarian globalist dictatorial political power and influence at work – under the guidance of Common Purpose.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:47 pm 
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The truth is, with many widely used apps now being encrypted, the security services have significant blind spots where those who wish harm can operated out of sight, like a cyclist undertaking an articulated truck in a traffic jam. And like the future of that idiot cyclist, its only gunna end in tears.

The big problems with the entire surveillance debate is that all matters regarding processes and methods have obviously have to be kept secret. This will almost inevitably result in suspicion and paranoia - indeed, now mass paranoia with social media spreading lots of nonsense to gullible people across the world in seconds.

The security & intelligence agencies are overt about one thing, they are a 'prevention' service. And like crime, fire and accident prevention, it will never be total and some attacks will slip through. It is a sad truth that its only the attacks become known to us all, where their many successful interventions and interruptions must often stay unreported. Those that do get reported are often disbelieved

I know I will be accused of being naive & trusting. Whereas the truth is actually the complete opposite: But I do feel that those who protect us should be given the tools to do the job. Of course there is room for improving the oversight by the Intelligence Security Committee - maybe by introducing non-MPs onto this auditing agency. But those who call for more transparency clearly do not understand the first thing about counter terrorism work. There is no way the security service can work in a high street office behind a glass wall !


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:36 am 
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Well put :)

They need the tools and some secrecy to get on with it.

_________________
Lets be careful out there !


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:40 am 
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Indeed, Hitler and Stalin would not have been the great leaders they became without the level of State Surveillance that they had....

Be careful what you wish for.......

I would rather see the rules on torture and other information retrieval techniques relaxed on known players than have the privacy rights removed for all.

This has little to do with preventing terrorism, the authorities already operate under the radar (and the law) when it suits them and if there is a direct threat to the State I have no problem with that. If they need to intercept the communications of suspected or known players or covertly install software (and it does exist) to get round encryption on their machines I again have no problem with it. Even if they they bend the law to do it.

What I don't want is a one size fits all approach.

We are already in an era when google and the Government have no qualms on selling private data to the large corporations. Indeed DVLA sell your vehicle registration details to every flight by night car park or clamping company so they can go to the very edge of the law to extort money from you. They will have no qualms whatsoever selling your medical histories to life insurance firms for a few sheckels the moment the law permits.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:48 pm 
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SOT wrote:
The truth is, with many widely used apps now being encrypted, the security services have significant blind spots where those who wish harm can operated out of sight, like a cyclist undertaking an articulated truck in a traffic jam. And like the future of that idiot cyclist, its only gunna end in tears.

The big problems with the entire surveillance debate is that all matters regarding processes and methods have obviously have to be kept secret. This will almost inevitably result in suspicion and paranoia - indeed, now mass paranoia with social media spreading lots of nonsense to gullible people across the world in seconds.

The security & intelligence agencies are overt about one thing, they are a 'prevention' service. And like crime, fire and accident prevention, it will never be total and some attacks will slip through. It is a sad truth that its only the attacks become known to us all, where their many successful interventions and interruptions must often stay unreported. Those that do get reported are often disbelieved

I know I will be accused of being naive & trusting. Whereas the truth is actually the complete opposite: But I do feel that those who protect us should be given the tools to do the job. Of course there is room for improving the oversight by the Intelligence Security Committee - maybe by introducing non-MPs onto this auditing agency. But those who call for more transparency clearly do not understand the first thing about counter terrorism work. There is no way the security service can work in a high street office behind a glass wall !
I think Peter Hitchens' article is very appropriate:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... hreat.html
Quote:
We are on the verge of founding Britain’s first Thought Police. 
Using the excuse of terrorism – whose main victim is considered thought – Theresa May’s Home Office is making a law which attacks free expression in this country as it has never been attacked before.
We already have some dangerous laws on the books. The Civil Contingencies Act can be used to turn Britain into a dictatorship overnight, if politicians can find an excuse to activate it.
But the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill, now slipping quietly and quickly through Parliament, is in a way even worse. It tells us what opinions we should have, or should not have.
As ever, terrorism is the pretext. Yet there is no evidence to suggest that the criminal drifters, school drop-outs and drug-addled losers who do much terrorist dirty work (and whose connections with vast worldwide conspiracies are sketchy to say the least) will be even slightly affected by it.
In a consultation paper attached to the Bill, all kinds of institutions, from nursery schools (yes really, see paragraph 107) to universities, are warned that they must be on the lookout for ‘extremists’.
But universities are told they have a ‘responsibility to exclude those promoting extremist views that support or are conducive to terrorism’.
Those words ‘conducive to’ are so vague that they could include almost anybody with views outside the mainstream.
What follows might have come from the laws of the Chinese People’s Republic or Mr Putin’s Russia. Two weeks’ advance notice of meetings must be given so that speakers can be checked up on, and the meeting cancelled if necessary.
Warning must also be given of the topic, ‘sight of any presentations, footage to be broadcast, etc’. A ‘risk assessment’ must be made on whether the meeting should be cancelled altogether, compelled to include an opposing speaker or (even more creepy) ‘someone in the audience to monitor the event’.
Institutions will be obliged to promote ‘British values’. These are defined as ‘democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance for those with different faiths and beliefs’. ‘Vocal and active opposition’ to any of these is now officially described as ‘extremism’.
Given authority’s general scorn for conservative Christianity, and its quivering, obsequious fear of Islam, it is easy to see how the second half will be applied in practice. As for ‘democracy’, plenty of people (me included) are not at all sure we have it, and wouldn’t be that keen on it if we did.
Am I then an ‘extremist’ who should be kept from speaking at colleges? Quite possibly. But the same paragraph (89, as it happens) goes further. ‘We expect institutions to encourage students to respect other people with particular regard to the protected characteristics set out in the Equality Act 2010’. 
These ‘protected characteristics’, about which we must be careful not to be ‘extremist’, are in fact the pillars of political correctness – including disability, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity, race, sex and sexual orientation.
The Bill is terrible in many other ways. And there is no reason to believe that any of these measures would have prevented any of the terrorist murders here or abroad, or will do so in future.
They have been lifted out of the box marked ‘try this on the Home Secretary during a national panic’, by officials who long to turn our free society into a despotism.
Once, there would have been enough wise, educated, grown-up people in both Houses of Parliament to stand up against this sort of spasm. Now most legislators go weak at the knees like simpering teenage groupies whenever anyone from the ‘Security’ or ‘Intelligence’ services demands more power and more money.
So far there has been nothing but a tiny mouse-squeak of protest against this dangerous, anti-British, concrete-headed twaddle. It will go through. And in ten years’ time we’ll wonder why we’re locking people up for thinking. We’ll ask: ‘How did that happen?’ This is how it happens.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Great column from Hitchens this week.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:12 pm 
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Its all very well journalists weaving their words together very professionally into this sort of anxiety promoting material - but Mr Hitchens is placed (like the vast majority of the public) in a position where he is blind to the full scale of the threat and the full details of the difficulties in preventing or reducing such threats. So how can he be sure he is right that there is a conspiracy to keep the population under control if he cant see the full picture?

The professionals in the intelligence world (not necessarily the politicians) have the full picture, and it is their job to keep us safe. Hitchens has no access to the material or information, and his job is to sell newspapers.

Consider a top chef. He studies for years and works his way up through the ranks of the kitchen to be number 1. He sources fine produce from across the world and employs only the best staff to help him create a masterpiece. Now consider a food critic. He cant really hack it as a proper journalist (in much as the same way as a columnist) and just has to turn up, scoff down a free meal and write something interesting. It doesn't need to be the truth, but he must now feed his readers

I feel there are parallels between this example and the relationship between the media and the intelligence agencies. The press hate them as they are so secret. yet they are so secret as they have to be to operate effectively - and so it goes on

I do concede that the press do play a vital role in questioning and keeping those in power on the straight and narrow - such as Watergate. But I really cannot believe all that I read in terms of a hidden and suspicious agenda


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